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Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:08 am
by pepos
I'm looking upgrading the turbo of my 2018 3.2 Wildtrack European version made in South Africa.
Since my only reliable choice so far, is buying parts from Australia, i did a search on Australian market and found that there is an option for a Garrett Powermax direct bolt on turbo part number 880862-5001W.
The shops selling it, claim that this is a direct bolt on for all P5AT engines from 2011 to 2018.
But from the small research i've made, i discovered that on P5AT engines from 2011 to 2015 the VNT actuator is REA technology and from 2016 to 2018 the actuator is UTA technology.
In European market the sellers declare that this upgrade is for PX1 2011 to 2015 models only.
In Australian market some sellers declare that this upgrade is a direct fit for PX1 and PX2 from 2011 to 2018.
Is there any difference on mechanical parts between European and Australian Wildtracks?
I'm a little bit confused on the matter and any knowledge on the subject would be a big help.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:57 pm
by saeb
Think you will be hard pressed to get a clear answer. Keep in mind our vehicle are Thai built and businesses down here will probably not want to guarantee if it will be correct.

All I can suggest is to email Australian businesses directly and ask their opinion.

If I had an SA vehicle sitting around I would tell you but we just do not have them here at all.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:00 am
by pepos
Thanks Stewart,
Just clarified the subject with a Garrett dealer.
European spec Rangers (South African made) changed from SREA to UTA technology from December 2015 and onwards.
Australian spec Rangers use SREA technology from 2011 until 2018.
2011-2015 (T6) European spec Rangers are Euro 5, 2016-2018 (T7) are Euro 6.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:23 am
by hoges
Mate i purchased a garret upgraded turbo from AXT turbos Melbourne they upgrade bearings wheels etc. they do change over or out right. They told me they can handle boost of 30 psi without failure, not that they would recommend that high on the Ranger

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:25 pm
by Iainboyd
The HPF in East Dandenong in Melbourne do a modified PX1 turbo for the PX2. Uprated wheels, bearings etc. I had mine done long with a re-tune of the ECU and its brilliant. The standard PX2 doesn't have thrust bearings and has a thinner main shaft.

I apologise for the typos - my two new lens in my eyes have yet to learn to coordinate with each other, if anyone reading this has had double cataract surgery they will know what I'm talking about,

To expand on what I said earlier. The standard PX2 Garrett turbo has smaller more acutely angled turbo wheels to reduce turbo lag, it has a smaller diameter shaft that has no thrust bearings to limit fore and aft movements. The PX1 has a thicker shaft and as standard it does have 270* thrust bearings. HPF replace the exhaust and compressor wheels to give a greater more constant supply air pressure at a lower engine speed. They also install 360* thrust bearings and stronger slip bearings and oil seals on the shaft. I wouldn't however advise just replacing the turbo without also having the "flash tune" carried out on the ECU as you wont get the full advantage of the conversion, but speak to Matt at HPF and see what he says.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:54 pm
by saeb
pepos wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:00 am Thanks Stewart,
Just clarified the subject with a Garrett dealer.
European spec Rangers (South African made) changed from SREA to UTA technology from December 2015 and onwards.
Australian spec Rangers use SREA technology from 2011 until 2018.
2011-2015 (T6) European spec Rangers are Euro 5, 2016-2018 (T7) are Euro 6.
Good work mate.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:54 am
by Iainboyd
hoges wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:23 am Mate i purchased a garret upgraded turbo from AXT turbos Melbourne they upgrade bearings wheels etc. they do change over or out right. They told me they can handle boost of 30 psi without failure, not that they would recommend that high on the Ranger
Just on your comments regarding the HPF modified PX2 turbo boost pressure.

I have a RedArc turbo pressure gauge that measures the boost at the cold pipe just before the throttle body. I now have a Ultragauge that reads the boost at the manifold (or so I'm informed that's where the ECM sensor is).

To confirm what you said the Redarc reads up to 35 psi boost while the Ultragauge never goes above 23 psi at the exact same moment -- this would indicate that the throttle body is doing its intended job of controlling the boost pressure into the inlet manifold and restricting the maximum boost pressure.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:06 pm
by saeb
Don't assume. It is plausible the Ranger map sensor may only be rated to approx 1.5 bar also. I have not looked at the specs.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:19 pm
by Hilly13
Just on the PX2 3.2 turbo's, my brother was told by a diesel tuner in Melbourne that apparently knows what's what that the PX2's have the same turbo as the PX1 up untill the DPF was fitted then they went to the current unit, Garrett 22 then Garrett 20.
HPF are very proud of their turbo, other companies are offering what appears on face value the same for less, I was going to change mine but now I'm not so sure.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:43 am
by CatHerder
Iainboyd wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:54 am...the Redarc reads up to 35 psi boost while the Ultragauge never goes above 23 psi at the exact same moment -- this would indicate that the throttle body is doing its intended job of controlling the boost pressure into the inlet manifold and restricting the maximum boost pressure.
The boost numbers in the quote above look like absolute pressure vs gauge pressure (difference is about 14psi). Are you sure you don't have the numbers around the wrong way? When measuring from a MAP sensor typically the value is absolute and needs atmospheric pressure subtracted to get a boost (gauge) pressure reading.
The inlet throttle plate is not used to control boost at all (boost is controlled via the VNT mechanics on the turbo controlled by the PCM) but is an engine shutdown and EGR control tool. During normal engine operation it is fully open 95+% of the time and its operation is transient in behaviour.
EDIT: I forgot, the inlet throttle is also heavily used during DPF regen cycles during which EGR is disabled.

While both the GT20 and GT22 turbo's (or variants thereof used on on all PX's) can generate 30+psi boost, you wouldn't want them to. They are out of their efficiency zone and are generating more heat and no extra airflow. Boost might be a nice number, but it's airflow (lb/min or g/s depending on your age) that determines how much power you can make. The stock GT20 used on my PX3 (with DPF) is close to the limit for airflow from the factory with max airflow of ~200g/s (the specs say it chokes at about 210), and it can achieve max airflow from 16-22psi of boost pressure according to my logging. While you might get 5% extra airflow from a stock turbo the power gains people buy with a PCM re-flash are mostly achieved by adding more fuel and running richer (but hopefully acceptable) mixtures. I can't see that a decent (30+%) hike in [reliable] power can be achieved without a different/modified turbo.

The Garrett Powermax turbo often referred to for comparison flows about 20% more air than the stock GT22(?). It can generate up to 35psi of pressure but it's airflow can max out from ~17-28psi. If anyone has detail on the HPF turbo specs I'd be happy to get a PM :mrgreen:
Call me a cynic, but these days I'm a bit jaded by people selling off the shelf parts and saying they modified them.

For interest, the factory inlet MAP sensor is rated for 3.5 bar absolute (~35psi boost) according to what my PCM expects.

Re: Turbo upgrade in a PX2

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:36 pm
by Iainboyd
Sorry, I should have clarified.
My turbo is a modified PX1 turbo - it was supplied, modified and installed by HPF in Dandenong Melbourne,it does not have the electronic controls that you mentioned, its just a Garrett turbo with a better set of thrust bearings (360 degree) and seals as well as redesigned compression wheels to give greater boost at lower engine speeds. There is a video on U tube should you wish to see Mathew talk about it and give a demonstration.
OK, the 30+ psi reading I mentioned is taken from a nipple just before the throttle body on the alloy Forefront Industries cold pipe. Just where the Ultagauge gets its input from I'm not too sure but I'd guess Stewart would know. As I said in another blurb here, the cold pipe reading is at times 30+ psi while the Ultragauge never goes above 23 psi.