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6R80 Fluid Levels

Boydie
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Okay, I was given a after-market cooler kit to trial and seeing as I had to remove half the front end to replace a holed A/C condenser I installed it at the same time. Once installed I filled the cooler radiator with ATF as per the installation instructions, it took around 3/4 of a litre.

Now here is the thing, how do you check the fluid levels now that the ATF is well below the temperatures quoted in the service manual being 89-102 degrees Centigrade ? Do you simply ignore the temperature requirement and the small amount of volume expansion that the higher temperatures would generate ?

Secondly after taking the Wildtrak for a quick run I noticed that the fluid level as indicated on the dip stick was low, so I added even more fluid - around 1.5 litres and now - some 2 hours afterwards when I rechecked it, its reading is way too high.

Am I right in my thinking that as the top of the air cooled radiator is roughly 450 mm higher than the bottom supply port on the gearbox that the fluid is able to flow ( gravity) back into the sump once the pump in the 6R80 has stopped running and giving it an "overfull" reading on the dipstick and that once the gearbox pump is running again this will go back to the correct level ?

Incidentally the OE Ford cooler would be roughly on the same levels as the connections on the autobox so there would be very little if any gravity effect on the ATF within the OE cooler.
simonj13
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Hi Boydie,
I recently changed my ATF fluid in my Ranger and went through a similar learning curve.
From my research (happy to be corrected) the fluid level should be at the upper mark on the dipstick with the ATF at operating temperature, the engine running and in park (go for a decent drive to get everything hot and then let the car idle on a flat surface while you check the level). I personally wouldn't worry about a couple of degrees, up to you how pedantic you get.
If you check the level when the car is turned off or the fluid is cold then you wont be getting accurate readings. I believe the bottom mark on the dipstick is the minimum fill level when the transmission is cold although it shouldn't be used for accurate fluid level readings.
Hopefully some of this was helpful.
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RossPat
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Get to operating temp and let the motor idle while you check it, should be on the top mark
It won't be accurate if the engine is stopped because fluid from the cooler drains back instantly and the torque converter will also drain back over time
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Boydie
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Thank you for that input and its the same method I used to establish the ATF level, I even went to the "extreem" of checking that the front to back and side to side were level with magnetic spirit levels however ............. !!!!!

I do have a problem that is a serious concern and a worry.

Driving up-hill as soon as the ATF temperature on the Ultragauge gets to 70 degrees I lose transmission power, the engine revs, the gears drop down from say 5th down to 2nd but there simply isnt any "drive" its almost as if its in limp mode.

I've checked on my lap-top on Forscan and there are no fault codes. ( From what I understand though that doesnt mean that there are none, it simply means that my Forscan isnt programmed to read them .)

This morning I inserted a thermocouple into the core of the new ATF radiator and checked the temperature and it corresponded within a degree with the ATF temperature on the Ultragauge, so from that I think I can deduce that there is ATF flowing through the new radiator. This was my first concern that ther pump in the autobox wasnt circulating ATF through it. Is my thinking sound ??

With the OE coolant cooler unit the ATF would regulary run up to over 95 degrees Centigrade, on average 10-15 degrees higher than the engine coolant temperature, so why is it doing this at just 70 ??
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RossPat
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Maybe it's time you spoke to a trans specialist, either someone you know or maybe Wholesale Automatics, they have a good name.
Anything I post would only be speculation.
My trans has run at 50deg for hours without issues.
I had the trans & transfer box serviced on 5/4/23.
Trans has done 21,000klms since the t/stat was removed and cooler fitted & there was very little change in fluid colour camparing old to new
He sent a sample to BP in Adelaide who do testing.
Fluid is still 90% efficient
If it was original it would be around 40% according to BP going by past testing
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Lincolnland
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Wholesale automatics are definitely the go as is removing the trans thermostat and running an external pwr cooler or 2. The pwr coolers used by Wholesale are a terrific bit of kit. Well worth the investment.
Boydie
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Okay. The issue has been resolved.
I did speak to Wholesale Automatics and to my local Ford Dealership service manager but by then I had come to the same conclusion that they had and that the problem lay with the TCM.
Somehow by changing the transmission cooler from fluid to air cooled the TCM program parameters had altered (?? just how this happened is beyond my or their understanding ??) and that the TCM thought that 70 degrees Centigrade was the high temperature mark - ( it used to be the OE setting of 135 Centigrade, -- I have never altered this setting ) and consequently it was shutting down the TC and allowing it to free wheel to conserve the gearbox clutches. -- This us their ( Ford and Wholesale Automatics ) explanation, not mine.
I did a reset / reprogram of the TCM in the car and its now okay, even so I wish that I had recieved a fault code from the Forscan Program when I did a check on any fault codes to explain this.
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How do you reset the tcm please? What are your temps now and what external cooler have you fitted? I'm running 2x pwr trans coolers on another of my vehicles both with davies craig Thermos fans all wired to run full time all with much success. Gota love 100% Australian made products!
Boydie
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Lincolnland wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:32 pm How do you reset the tcm please? What are your temps now and what external cooler have you fitted? I'm running 2x pwr trans coolers on another of my vehicles both with davies craig Thermos fans all wired to run full time all with much success. Gota love 100% Australian made products!
Okay, to reset the TCM there is a video on Utube that I used, try vid:P45Lo0N8_Qs be aware that step 7 should be On-Off-On as otherwise you cannot perform step 8 which it to engage the Sports mode as if you leave the ignition off the selector is locked. Anyway I did this and I got the alarm and the box selection was certainly improved.
I also got out and under :-( I dropped the sump and valve plate and replaced the OE thermostatic by-pass valve for a solid permanent flow valve, a few people that I had consulted thought that this might have been jamming closed and raising the fluid temperature, by replacing it -- better safe than sorry.

The cooler kit is very professhionally made, the hoses, radiator and gearbox connections are all flare screw on hose connections with a black anodized finish to the radiator, the hoses are protected with a second mesh cover, the two CAD machined connectors to the gearbox are also anodized and it was made by HDI ( Hybrid Power Industries ) and supplied by their Sydney (NSW) distributors.

The hoses come in the correct length, the top hose being 250mm longer than the bottom hose and each has hydraulic fluid connections pre-fitted, 90 degree elbows to connect to the radiator and straight connectors to connect to the two individual gearbox fittings.
It fits inside the top 55mm wide rail cross beam so its not interfereing with anything else although its a real pain to install as I had to remove the fan cowls, the engine radiator ( I had to do this anyway to replace the damaged A/C condenser and loosen the intercooler and remove the cold and hot hoses.
Two additional 6.5mm holes needed to be drilled in the bottom cross channel to retain the bottom of the stainless steel radiator frame with the supplied stainless steel nuts and bolts.

As to its cooling peformance, well, that appraisal will need to wait until we return from WA.
Boydie
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Linconland asked.

"What are your temps now and what external cooler have you fitted?"

Okay, I've gone through the make and unit I fitted and I've just returned from a trip to Katoomba - uphill from my home and I took note of the following temperatures on my return.
The Radiator core temps were taken with a thermocouple and my Scope Multimetre.
The temperatures it measured were within a degree of that shown on my Ultragauge so we can assume that they are both correct and accurate. All temperatures are in Centigrade.

The Ambient air temperature was 12 degrees
Engine Coolant Temperature was 88 degrees
ATF temperature as shown on the Ultragauge was 56 degrees.
Temperature measured in the top core of the ATF Radiator was 56 degrees
Temperature measured in the bottom core of the ATF radiator was 42 degrees.
Boydie
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The link below is the cooler that I was given to trial.

https://www.hybrid-power.com/hdifordran ... lcoolerkit

Check it out, it's certainly a quality product.
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AN Fittings and braided lines. Nice. Cooler looks identical to the Chinese proflow units I see regularly on race cars. Will be far superior to the oem cooler as long as the Chinese AN fittings don't leak which they are well know to to do. Please let's us know how it goes long term
Boydie
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Lincolnland wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:21 pm AN Fittings and braided lines. Nice. Cooler looks identical to the Chinese proflow units I see regularly on race cars. Will be far superior to the oem cooler as long as the Chinese AN fittings don't leak which they are well know to to do. Please let's us know how it goes long term
As I said before, this conversion to an air cooler transmission cooler was done in preperation to us going to the NT ( Palm Valley and Litchfield National Parks ) and later to WA to look after Goongarrie Station north of Kalgoolie. We will return via the Eyre Highway, Port Augusta, Broken Hill and then home.
By then I'll be far better able to give a report on how if performed over the 4500 kilometres we expect to be doing over bitumen and graded tracks. So far no leaks at any of the eight fittings.
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If you spring a leak change the AN Fittings to speedflow (brand) fittings. Australian made and far superior quality. Expensive but worth every cent. Likewise if the cooler gives a problem, swap it out for a 1/2 inch AN pwr cooler. Also, Australian made and an excellent product. Can highly recommend
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RossPat
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Lincolnland wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:41 am If you spring a leak change the AN Fittings to speedflow (brand) fittings. Australian made and far superior quality. Expensive but worth every cent. Likewise if the cooler gives a problem, swap it out for a 1/2 inch AN pwr cooler. Also, Australian made and an excellent product. Can highly recommend
Yes, a PRW duel oil cooler from Wholesale Automatics for the win.
They would have sold thousands of them and no issues that I am aware of.
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RossPat
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Boydie wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:40 am The Ambient air temperature was 12 degrees
Engine Coolant Temperature was 88 degrees
ATF temperature as shown on the Ultragauge was 56 degrees.
Temperature measured in the top core of the ATF Radiator was 56 degrees
Temperature measured in the bottom core of the ATF radiator was 42 degrees.
Until you get a higher ambient temp & under load you won't know
12 is too low to test
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Boydie
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Agreed but I have no control over the weather and by the time we get into the warmer northern climates I wont have an internet connection for close to 5 months so I can only give you the information that I currently have. I'll copy a full report on my return in September.
Boydie
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RossPat wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:06 am
Lincolnland wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:41 am If you spring a leak change the AN Fittings to speedflow (brand) fittings. Australian made and far superior quality. Expensive but worth every cent. Likewise if the cooler gives a problem, swap it out for a 1/2 inch AN pwr cooler. Also, Australian made and an excellent product. Can highly recommend
Yes, a PRW duel oil cooler from Wholesale Automatics for the win.
They would have sold thousands of them and no issues that I am aware of.
So far since I installed the cooler we have done just under 1000 kms running arround up and down hills and not a sign of any fluid leakage and I'm confident that the AN connections will be okay.
On our return from our travels to the NT and WA In October I'll be fitting a Nomad "Heavy Duty" valve plate and a Wholesale Automatics billet "Heavy duty, low stall" torque converter, both are recommended by them for the sort of travelling we do and are on order for delivery in the last week of September.
The additional payment of the $1000 deposit on the condition of the original VP and TC being returned to them is an annoyance though.